Antiphonal Violins - 2006/12/14 22:30
Although the re-location of the second violins to the right of the conductor was announced as an experiment for one year it looks as though it is now a permanent arrangement. I for one think that the improvement in sound completely justifies the move whatever individual musicians may have thought. We are fortunate now in having a proper hands-on Music Director (the first since AG) who is clearly not afraid to take decisions to improve the sound of the orchestra. Recently the move of some r&f firsts to the seconds looks like a step in the right direction.
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DJMurdoch
Posts: 39
Re:Antiphonal Violins - 2006/12/15 09:58
Given that Bruckner is alleged to have preferred to have the second violins to the right of the conductor to create that kind of antiphonal effect, I'll be interested to hear how it impacts on the sound of Walter Weller's Bruckner 3 next month, as the other Bruckner concerts I've been to (the BBC SSO's Bruckner 6 under Donald Runnicles at the Edinburgh Festival and the same orchestra's rendition of the '77 version of Bruckner 3 under Christoph K??nig at City Halls in October) have had both sets of violins on the conductor's left.
The sound of the orchestra has been excellent on all the occasions I've been to hear them at the RCH recently (the Mahler 2 particularly blew me out of my seat). Although, having said that, when you sit where I usually do - on the circle level, roughly in line with the bassoons - you can't really have any complaints about the sound quality...!
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Ann Dante
Posts: 39
Re:Antiphonal Violins - 2006/12/17 14:14DJMurdoch wrote: Given that Bruckner is alleged to have preferred to have the second violins to the right of the conductor to create that kind of antiphonal effect, I'll be interested to hear how it impacts on the sound of Walter Weller's Bruckner 3 next month. :
There is no doubt in my mind that Bruckner 3 benefits from antiphonal violins. The Weller concert will also be interesting because he is known to prefer the firsts and seconds on his left. Now that the orchestra has been willing to re-seat for Jarvi will they do the same for Weller if he asks?
A further interest will be the comparison with Deneve's performance of the same symphony at the Edinburgh Festival last August. Does anyone know which version Weller will be using?
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Simon Woods
Posts: 3
Re:Antiphonal Violins - 2006/12/18 11:11
Bruckner certainly would have expected the violins to be split left and right. However during the 1930's to 1980's this was very unfashionable, and many conductors of the generation who grew up in that period prefer the seating with all the violins on the left side. As you correctly say, Walter Weller does prefer to have all the violins grouped together on the left, and of course we will be respecting his preference in the upcoming concerts.
The position we are taking from now on is that "split" violins will be our normal setup, but on occasions we will revert to having violins together on the left - either when a conductor feels particularly strongly about it (like Neem Jarvi this past week), or when (as in this coming week's Christmas concerts) there is simply not enough room on the stage to do it the other way!
On editions: Walter Weller will be using the 1889 Nowak edition, which is the more familiar version of Bruckner 4 than the later revised version Stephane conducted this summer at the Edinburgh Festival. It will certainly be an interesting contrast.
Happy Christmas! Simon Woods Chief Executive RSNO
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Ann Dante
Posts: 39
Re:Antiphonal Violins - 2006/12/18 15:29
Thank you Simon,
Long ago the orchestra used to change its layout for different conductors. As you say firsts and seconds together became the norm, certainly from Gibson's time.
Boult, who was a regular guest and who recorded Elgar 2 with the SNO, always had the antiphonal layout.
It's good that the new arrangement does not preclude flexibility where required.
Happy Christmas.
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simonwds
Posts: 3
Re:Antiphonal Violins - 2006/12/19 09:21
Funny that you mention Boult. If you listen to many of his older recordings (eg the Brahms Symphonies) you will find, if my memory serves me right, that the seconds are always on the right! SW
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Boult, who was a regular guest and who recorded Elgar 2 with the SNO, always had the antiphonal layout.
How interesting! I never knew that Boult recorded with the SNO...even the Gibson recording of Elgar 2 (Chandos) is a rarity these days so this would be something special to hear. Since your post I've done some research and it seems the recording was made in 1963. I can find no current references to the recording on CD but have found the following LP references: WAVERLY LLP 1021 SSLP 1022 EMI CFP 172
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Ann Dante
Posts: 39
Re:Antiphonal Violins - 2006/12/19 14:52
Your research is correct David. It was recorded in 1963 by Waverley an independent Scottish label which was eventually bought out by EMI. I think the Elgar was recorded in the Usher Hall but I can't swear to that. I've just looked at my old LPs in the loft and find that I have both the Waverley and Classics for Pleasure issues. I see that the CfP one is in stereo which is presumably why I had both. I must see if I can get it transferred to CD.
Waverley was the first company to record the orchestra, the very first disc being a 7" EP recorded in St Andrews Hall in 1960 with AG. Lehar, Mussorgsky and Rossini. There was another EP in 1964 of Mozart arias with Bill McCue and an LP of Prokofiev 5 recorded in the Usher Hall.
One thing about these old recordings is that they show just how far the orchestra has come in subsequent years.
AD
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amunro
Posts: 15
Re:Antiphonal Violins - 2006/12/23 00:38
I thought Weller was conducting Bruckner 3?
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simonwoods
Posts: 4
Re:Antiphonal Violins - 2006/12/23 12:17
Sorry folks, I confused everybody. To clarify: Stephane Deneve conducted the less well-known revised version of Bruckner 4 at the Edinburgh Festival this year. Walter Weller will be conducting the 1889 Nowak version of Bruckner 3 (not 4) early next year.
Apologies and Happy Christmas! Simon
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Ann Dante
Posts: 39
Re:Antiphonal Violins - 2006/12/23 19:00
Actually the mistake was mine. It was Gunther Herbig who conducted the 3rd symphony at the EIF, not Deneve. Herbig also used the 1889 version. AD
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Lauren Till
Posts: 22
Re:Antiphonal Violins - 2007/01/19 00:15
I have to say I think the sound is good but I have to say being a cellist I do feel for them. Having played in an orchesta set out in this way I found it difficult space wise....but its all for the music and if it sounds good who am I to complain?!
Lauren x
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